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	<title>Comments on: A little Study of the Internet Censorship in China</title>
	<atom:link href="http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/01/14/1205/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/01/14/1205</link>
	<description>Of China changing the World</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Googles mistake leaving China &#124; CHINAYOUREN</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/01/14/1205/comment-page-1#comment-19889</link>
		<dc:creator>Googles mistake leaving China &#124; CHINAYOUREN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/?p=1205#comment-19889</guid>
		<description>[...] like Charter 08,  so it is only fair that I praise them now. Search Engine Manipulation (SEM) is the worst kind of censorship, because it leads the user to believe that the information [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] like Charter 08,  so it is only fair that I praise them now. Search Engine Manipulation (SEM) is the worst kind of censorship, because it leads the user to believe that the information [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Google and China (3): Some updates &#124; CHINAYOUREN</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/01/14/1205/comment-page-1#comment-19878</link>
		<dc:creator>Google and China (3): Some updates &#124; CHINAYOUREN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/?p=1205#comment-19878</guid>
		<description>[...] in Google.cn has changed. I have a good point of comparison because I did similar searches in an experiment last year. You can look up things like 08宪章 (political document charter 08) and you will see the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in Google.cn has changed. I have a good point of comparison because I did similar searches in an experiment last year. You can look up things like 08宪章 (political document charter 08) and you will see the [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: China Internet Censorship Explained &#124; CHINAYOUREN</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/01/14/1205/comment-page-1#comment-19877</link>
		<dc:creator>China Internet Censorship Explained &#124; CHINAYOUREN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/?p=1205#comment-19877</guid>
		<description>[...] I started posting about censorship I&#8217;ve noticed with some surprise that the basics of the system are not clearly understood by [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I started posting about censorship I&#8217;ve noticed with some surprise that the basics of the system are not clearly understood by [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Google defies Chinese censors &#124; CHINAYOUREN</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/01/14/1205/comment-page-1#comment-19872</link>
		<dc:creator>Google defies Chinese censors &#124; CHINAYOUREN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/?p=1205#comment-19872</guid>
		<description>[...] because of all this, Google is not willing to continue censoring results on Google.cn and that &#8220;we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] because of all this, Google is not willing to continue censoring results on Google.cn and that &#8220;we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: China Travel Trends-Reaching the Chinese Travel Market Online &#187; Blog Archive &#187; China Internet Censorship Explained</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/01/14/1205/comment-page-1#comment-19670</link>
		<dc:creator>China Travel Trends-Reaching the Chinese Travel Market Online &#187; Blog Archive &#187; China Internet Censorship Explained</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/?p=1205#comment-19670</guid>
		<description>[...] I started posting about censorship I’ve noticed with some surprise that the basics of the system are not clearly understood by many [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I started posting about censorship I’ve noticed with some surprise that the basics of the system are not clearly understood by many [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: uln</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/01/14/1205/comment-page-1#comment-469</link>
		<dc:creator>uln</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 04:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/?p=1205#comment-469</guid>
		<description>Hi, thanks a lot. I downloaded your paper and I find it very helpful. 

I am quite surprised by this part of your comment though: &quot;This is because you are connecting to Baidu without passing through the filtering system (gfw). If you connected to Baidu from outside China I can trigger the RC.&quot;

1- Basically what you are saying is that the GFW works in BOTH directions?? So it not only blocks incoming content, but also content going from China to the outside. If this is true, RC blocks on content that is hosted in a server within China can only be seen from outside China, and viceversa. I find this surprising, because it defeats the purpose of Chinese censorship: they want to block content from showing inside China, while giving an image of (relative) openness to the outside. Are you sure of this bidirectionality of GFW??

2- Also, one related question, are you sure GFW is ONLY applied to content crossing the border of mainland China, so it is only a &quot;border control&quot;, as opposed to also blocking content ciculating within China. I suspect this is true, as is exlplained for example in the famous 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200802u/fallows-china-censorship&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fallows&lt;/a&gt; article. But I don&#039;t have any proof.

3- Thanks for the info on the crawlers too. My approach however is different. I look at Censorship from the side of the final user, and my question is: What is google/baidu showing the users when they perform a search? Whether it is for crawlers/servers or other technical reasons -which Google has certainly the know-how to understand and solve- the essential is to find out: Search Engines are consiously giving the final user manipulated information, yes or not. 

In this sense, I found very useful the points in your paper about transparency, thanks again for the link.

Check also the other more comprehensive post on censorship I wrote (link below).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, thanks a lot. I downloaded your paper and I find it very helpful. </p>
<p>I am quite surprised by this part of your comment though: &#8220;This is because you are connecting to Baidu without passing through the filtering system (gfw). If you connected to Baidu from outside China I can trigger the RC.&#8221;</p>
<p>1- Basically what you are saying is that the GFW works in BOTH directions?? So it not only blocks incoming content, but also content going from China to the outside. If this is true, RC blocks on content that is hosted in a server within China can only be seen from outside China, and viceversa. I find this surprising, because it defeats the purpose of Chinese censorship: they want to block content from showing inside China, while giving an image of (relative) openness to the outside. Are you sure of this bidirectionality of GFW??</p>
<p>2- Also, one related question, are you sure GFW is ONLY applied to content crossing the border of mainland China, so it is only a &#8220;border control&#8221;, as opposed to also blocking content ciculating within China. I suspect this is true, as is exlplained for example in the famous<br />
<a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200802u/fallows-china-censorship" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Fallows</a> article. But I don&#8217;t have any proof.</p>
<p>3- Thanks for the info on the crawlers too. My approach however is different. I look at Censorship from the side of the final user, and my question is: What is google/baidu showing the users when they perform a search? Whether it is for crawlers/servers or other technical reasons -which Google has certainly the know-how to understand and solve- the essential is to find out: Search Engines are consiously giving the final user manipulated information, yes or not. </p>
<p>In this sense, I found very useful the points in your paper about transparency, thanks again for the link.</p>
<p>Check also the other more comprehensive post on censorship I wrote (link below).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nart</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/01/14/1205/comment-page-1#comment-468</link>
		<dc:creator>Nart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 02:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/?p=1205#comment-468</guid>
		<description>You might be interested in a paper I wrote on search engine filtering.
http://ssrn.com/abstract=1157373

&quot;Baidu has a different system from Google: it has no Reset Connections. &quot;

This is because you are connecting to Baidu without passing through the filtering system (gfw). If you connected to Baidu from outside China I can trigger the RC. This is also why you get RC when connecting to Google.

The RC&#039;s you get are due to the filtering (gfw), not Google(.com). Google.cn has servers inside China, but you can also connect to google.cn server outside China. i find it best to manually specify the IP, that way you know what/where you are connecting to.

Also, there are differences in search engine results for a variety of reason, one of which is the location of the crawlers -- if they are indexing from inside China then sites blocked (gfw) are not indexed and don&#039;t need to be censored by the search engines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might be interested in a paper I wrote on search engine filtering.<br />
<a href="http://ssrn.com/abstract=1157373" rel="nofollow">http://ssrn.com/abstract=1157373</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Baidu has a different system from Google: it has no Reset Connections. &#8221;</p>
<p>This is because you are connecting to Baidu without passing through the filtering system (gfw). If you connected to Baidu from outside China I can trigger the RC. This is also why you get RC when connecting to Google.</p>
<p>The RC&#8217;s you get are due to the filtering (gfw), not Google(.com). Google.cn has servers inside China, but you can also connect to google.cn server outside China. i find it best to manually specify the IP, that way you know what/where you are connecting to.</p>
<p>Also, there are differences in search engine results for a variety of reason, one of which is the location of the crawlers &#8212; if they are indexing from inside China then sites blocked (gfw) are not indexed and don&#8217;t need to be censored by the search engines.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: China Internet Censorship Explained &#124; CHINAYOUREN</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/01/14/1205/comment-page-1#comment-384</link>
		<dc:creator>China Internet Censorship Explained &#124; CHINAYOUREN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 04:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/?p=1205#comment-384</guid>
		<description>[...] have already done a little study of SEM in a recent post, including the two most used Search Engines in China, and showing that Baidu is by [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have already done a little study of SEM in a recent post, including the two most used Search Engines in China, and showing that Baidu is by [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: uln</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/01/14/1205/comment-page-1#comment-336</link>
		<dc:creator>uln</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 18:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/?p=1205#comment-336</guid>
		<description>Oops. Of course, I guess I forgot to say thanks :)

Yes, I know that Fallows article and it is brilliant, I have linked to it recently in another post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops. Of course, I guess I forgot to say thanks <img src='http://chinayouren-free.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Yes, I know that Fallows article and it is brilliant, I have linked to it recently in another post.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: why</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/01/14/1205/comment-page-1#comment-335</link>
		<dc:creator>why</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 17:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/?p=1205#comment-335</guid>
		<description>And of course all this information is covered in the excellent article James Fallows wrote a while ago about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And of course all this information is covered in the excellent article James Fallows wrote a while ago about it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: why</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/01/14/1205/comment-page-1#comment-334</link>
		<dc:creator>why</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 17:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/?p=1205#comment-334</guid>
		<description>&quot;But there is a reason why I haven’t considered these things in my post.&quot;

My comment was not a critic, what you&#039;ve done is interesting. I just wanted to expand a bit on the subject for the fun of it... ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But there is a reason why I haven’t considered these things in my post.&#8221;</p>
<p>My comment was not a critic, what you&#8217;ve done is interesting. I just wanted to expand a bit on the subject for the fun of it&#8230; <img src='http://chinayouren-free.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: uln</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/01/14/1205/comment-page-1#comment-329</link>
		<dc:creator>uln</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 09:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/?p=1205#comment-329</guid>
		<description>Mm. Interesting, I am going to watch the bots that visit my website for weird ones to see if I can find out which is the one of the State Council. If I know my CPC well, it should be easy to identify, it&#039;s probably called &quot;GreatWallbot&quot; or &quot;LiberationBot&quot; :)


Back to your comment: there are many ways that the authorities censor content, and as you say, they can sometimes only censor one post within a blog (this was the case today when I found out one of the threads at FM had the RC block): it is &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.foolsmountain.com/2009/01/14/was-mao-really-a-monsterthe-academic-response-to-chang-and-halliday%e2%80%99s-mao-the-unknown-story/comment-page-4/#comment-25982&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

But there is a reason why I haven&#039;t considered these things in my post. The above little &quot;study&quot; is only focused on &quot;Search Engine censorship&quot; and the extent to which these search engines collaborate with the censors. The examples we are giving here like Youtube and FM are a different aspect, and cannot be controlled by the owners of these sites or by the Search Engines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mm. Interesting, I am going to watch the bots that visit my website for weird ones to see if I can find out which is the one of the State Council. If I know my CPC well, it should be easy to identify, it&#8217;s probably called &#8220;GreatWallbot&#8221; or &#8220;LiberationBot&#8221; <img src='http://chinayouren-free.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Back to your comment: there are many ways that the authorities censor content, and as you say, they can sometimes only censor one post within a blog (this was the case today when I found out one of the threads at FM had the RC block): it is <a href="http://blog.foolsmountain.com/2009/01/14/was-mao-really-a-monsterthe-academic-response-to-chang-and-halliday%e2%80%99s-mao-the-unknown-story/comment-page-4/#comment-25982" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p>But there is a reason why I haven&#8217;t considered these things in my post. The above little &#8220;study&#8221; is only focused on &#8220;Search Engine censorship&#8221; and the extent to which these search engines collaborate with the censors. The examples we are giving here like Youtube and FM are a different aspect, and cannot be controlled by the owners of these sites or by the Search Engines.</p>
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