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	<title>Comments on: Lessons from Xinjiang: The Deep Roots</title>
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	<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253</link>
	<description>Of China changing the World</description>
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		<title>By: gao</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253/comment-page-1#comment-24959</link>
		<dc:creator>gao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 21:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253#comment-24959</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t it fascinating to have someone commenting about &quot;life compass&quot;? It is beyond the little brain of the reglious lambs that that a value and moral system can exist well without throwing all your responsibilities to a god. 

Btw the only folks that give a fuss about Gods are either nurturing terrorist attacks (green cults) or errh...killing terrorists (jews)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t it fascinating to have someone commenting about &#8220;life compass&#8221;? It is beyond the little brain of the reglious lambs that that a value and moral system can exist well without throwing all your responsibilities to a god. </p>
<p>Btw the only folks that give a fuss about Gods are either nurturing terrorist attacks (green cults) or errh&#8230;killing terrorists (jews)</p>
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		<title>By: Race and Sensitivity &#124; CHINAYOUREN</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253/comment-page-1#comment-11213</link>
		<dc:creator>Race and Sensitivity &#124; CHINAYOUREN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253#comment-11213</guid>
		<description>[...] is not to say that the system should not be improved. From my observation of some of the affected communities in China, it looks like the present state of affairs is far from ideal. Chinese should work to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is not to say that the system should not be improved. From my observation of some of the affected communities in China, it looks like the present state of affairs is far from ideal. Chinese should work to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Was wir aus den Xinjiang-Vorfällen lernen können &#124; Daily China</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253/comment-page-1#comment-10772</link>
		<dc:creator>Was wir aus den Xinjiang-Vorfällen lernen können &#124; Daily China</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 21:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253#comment-10772</guid>
		<description>[...] Lessons from Xinjiang: The Deep Roots &#124; CHINAYOUREN. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Lessons from Xinjiang: The Deep Roots | CHINAYOUREN. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Uln</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253/comment-page-1#comment-9931</link>
		<dc:creator>Uln</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 07:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253#comment-9931</guid>
		<description>I sense that you don´t agree with my post, and it sounds like you are trying to be ironic but I don´t really understand your point.

Why do you think I am being &quot;careful with the wording&quot;? No really, I am writing what I think  and this is not dictated by the censors. Feel free to speak up and say, for example, what is wrong with &quot;200 Chinese killed by Chinese&quot;. I mean, obviously most of the killers where Uyghurs, but I wasn´t trying to make that point here, I already wrote about it in the previous posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sense that you don´t agree with my post, and it sounds like you are trying to be ironic but I don´t really understand your point.</p>
<p>Why do you think I am being &#8220;careful with the wording&#8221;? No really, I am writing what I think  and this is not dictated by the censors. Feel free to speak up and say, for example, what is wrong with &#8220;200 Chinese killed by Chinese&#8221;. I mean, obviously most of the killers where Uyghurs, but I wasn´t trying to make that point here, I already wrote about it in the previous posts.</p>
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		<title>By: Bert</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253/comment-page-1#comment-9896</link>
		<dc:creator>Bert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253#comment-9896</guid>
		<description>&quot;200 Chinese killed by Chinese are the clear proof of this failure.&quot;

 Haha, had to be careful in wording there didn&#039;t ya? Must drive you crazy not being able to speak that which is so plain. Your denial of the obvious is praiseworthy.

&quot;prohibition for under 18 year olds to attend prayers at the mosque,&quot; 

 Right, the gov&#039;t education system has to take away the ability to worship anything but the state. Start it when they are young then it won&#039;t be in thier hearts. This is why many Han have no true life compass.

&quot;There are many good arguments both for and against the independence of Xinjiang, which would make for a fascinating discussion, but I will not touch the subject here. Whatever the theory says, the reality is that Xinjiang is and shall remain Chinese for the foreseeable future.&quot;

 Oh brother!  

 
 &quot;The clear goal of the party is to guarantee China’s unity, stability and harmony, it is not and has never been to impose the supremacy of the Han.&quot;

 Clearly Han people will support any statement like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;200 Chinese killed by Chinese are the clear proof of this failure.&#8221;</p>
<p> Haha, had to be careful in wording there didn&#8217;t ya? Must drive you crazy not being able to speak that which is so plain. Your denial of the obvious is praiseworthy.</p>
<p>&#8220;prohibition for under 18 year olds to attend prayers at the mosque,&#8221; </p>
<p> Right, the gov&#8217;t education system has to take away the ability to worship anything but the state. Start it when they are young then it won&#8217;t be in thier hearts. This is why many Han have no true life compass.</p>
<p>&#8220;There are many good arguments both for and against the independence of Xinjiang, which would make for a fascinating discussion, but I will not touch the subject here. Whatever the theory says, the reality is that Xinjiang is and shall remain Chinese for the foreseeable future.&#8221;</p>
<p> Oh brother!  </p>
<p> &#8220;The clear goal of the party is to guarantee China’s unity, stability and harmony, it is not and has never been to impose the supremacy of the Han.&#8221;</p>
<p> Clearly Han people will support any statement like this.</p>
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		<title>By: uln</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253/comment-page-1#comment-9172</link>
		<dc:creator>uln</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253#comment-9172</guid>
		<description>Thanks, your comments are very valuable and I can see that you know Xinjiang well.

In response to your points:

1- The bingtuan: I agree, and I edit this point. While I still think that it would be a good idea to get rid of their military connection, I understand this is not as simple as a name change. The army probably obtains profits from these activities and even Hu doesnt want to mess with that, in spite of his post in the Central Military Commission.

2- Bilingual Education: I don&#039;t agree on this. And I can tell you why: because I come myself from an ethnic minority where a very similar situation is happening, and where EVERYONE is forced to study BOTH languages. There are of course some people upset from both sides, but in the end it is best for all, and it will do a lot to finish with the Uyghur economic discrimination. One thing is to protect your culture and a very different thing is to give up your chances to attend a good Uni, etc. 

While some Uyghurs (and Han!) may have contempt for this kind of policy, I am sure also many others could benefit from it, and anyway it doesn&#039;t harm anyone to study a new language, rather the opposite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, your comments are very valuable and I can see that you know Xinjiang well.</p>
<p>In response to your points:</p>
<p>1- The bingtuan: I agree, and I edit this point. While I still think that it would be a good idea to get rid of their military connection, I understand this is not as simple as a name change. The army probably obtains profits from these activities and even Hu doesnt want to mess with that, in spite of his post in the Central Military Commission.</p>
<p>2- Bilingual Education: I don&#8217;t agree on this. And I can tell you why: because I come myself from an ethnic minority where a very similar situation is happening, and where EVERYONE is forced to study BOTH languages. There are of course some people upset from both sides, but in the end it is best for all, and it will do a lot to finish with the Uyghur economic discrimination. One thing is to protect your culture and a very different thing is to give up your chances to attend a good Uni, etc. </p>
<p>While some Uyghurs (and Han!) may have contempt for this kind of policy, I am sure also many others could benefit from it, and anyway it doesn&#8217;t harm anyone to study a new language, rather the opposite.</p>
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		<title>By: komoroka</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253/comment-page-1#comment-9129</link>
		<dc:creator>komoroka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 18:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253#comment-9129</guid>
		<description>A few points on another great xinjiang post.

Policies designed to avert fundamentalism are clearly not working.  Ironically, the last couple years has seen the rise of Hizb ut Tahrir  (a pan Islamic party suspected of terrorist sympathies and proscribed in most central asian countries) in southern xinjiang.  There are signs throughout southern Xinjiang warning against joining them and they were even implicated by the government in stirring up unrest last year.  They could very well be filling the vacuum left by lack of outlet for meaningful religious expression.  I don’t believe they were ever considered a problem before.

The language policy (shuang yu) is a specific source of contempt among Uyghurs.  I think those Uyghurs who need to use Chinese inevitably learn it, whether formally or informally.  That is almost always the case.  On the other side, in significant time spent in Xinjiang, I only heard one Han capable of speaking Uyghur and I’m pretty sure he was an undercover cop.  It doesn’t help that governor Nur Bekri is on record saying teaching mandarin to Uyghurs helps ‘fight terrorism’.  Unfortunately, this policy doesn’t seem to be going away any time soon.  (see: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-08/03/content_11815602.htm)


You’re right that the WUC has not presented a consistent program.  It is still unclear whether they prefer autonomy or outright independence.  They seem to willfully obscure this point.  They simply seem to be engaged in a battle with the government to spin the incident to maximum advantage whatever their ultimate aim.


The convoluted affirmative action policies seem to have exacerbated tension.  By trying to pacify each ethnic group individually they have unwittingly turned themselves against one another.  Both have legitimate grievances about ethnic policy.


With the exception of your point about the bingtuans your suggestions are all very well taken.  But converting the bingtuans, which largely administer themselves and report to Beijing, would most definitely be a large power concession as they are still quasi military in nature.

Understanding and facing up to realities in Xinjiang is undoubtedly the ultimate cure to these problems….. but unfortunately events in Urumqi and hardening feelings on both sides will likely delay any meaningful resolution for a long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few points on another great xinjiang post.</p>
<p>Policies designed to avert fundamentalism are clearly not working.  Ironically, the last couple years has seen the rise of Hizb ut Tahrir  (a pan Islamic party suspected of terrorist sympathies and proscribed in most central asian countries) in southern xinjiang.  There are signs throughout southern Xinjiang warning against joining them and they were even implicated by the government in stirring up unrest last year.  They could very well be filling the vacuum left by lack of outlet for meaningful religious expression.  I don’t believe they were ever considered a problem before.</p>
<p>The language policy (shuang yu) is a specific source of contempt among Uyghurs.  I think those Uyghurs who need to use Chinese inevitably learn it, whether formally or informally.  That is almost always the case.  On the other side, in significant time spent in Xinjiang, I only heard one Han capable of speaking Uyghur and I’m pretty sure he was an undercover cop.  It doesn’t help that governor Nur Bekri is on record saying teaching mandarin to Uyghurs helps ‘fight terrorism’.  Unfortunately, this policy doesn’t seem to be going away any time soon.  (see: <a href="http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-08/03/content_11815602.htm" rel="nofollow">http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-08/03/content_11815602.htm</a>)</p>
<p>You’re right that the WUC has not presented a consistent program.  It is still unclear whether they prefer autonomy or outright independence.  They seem to willfully obscure this point.  They simply seem to be engaged in a battle with the government to spin the incident to maximum advantage whatever their ultimate aim.</p>
<p>The convoluted affirmative action policies seem to have exacerbated tension.  By trying to pacify each ethnic group individually they have unwittingly turned themselves against one another.  Both have legitimate grievances about ethnic policy.</p>
<p>With the exception of your point about the bingtuans your suggestions are all very well taken.  But converting the bingtuans, which largely administer themselves and report to Beijing, would most definitely be a large power concession as they are still quasi military in nature.</p>
<p>Understanding and facing up to realities in Xinjiang is undoubtedly the ultimate cure to these problems….. but unfortunately events in Urumqi and hardening feelings on both sides will likely delay any meaningful resolution for a long time.</p>
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		<title>By: uln</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253/comment-page-1#comment-9085</link>
		<dc:creator>uln</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/08/08/2253#comment-9085</guid>
		<description>There is a second part to this article that I intend to do next week. I haven&#039;t had the time to finish editing and for the same reason some important links are missing that might make my assumptions more solid. In any case it is full of opinions, so feel free to disagree or suggest improvements.

I am off to the beach in Qingdao, see you on Monday!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a second part to this article that I intend to do next week. I haven&#8217;t had the time to finish editing and for the same reason some important links are missing that might make my assumptions more solid. In any case it is full of opinions, so feel free to disagree or suggest improvements.</p>
<p>I am off to the beach in Qingdao, see you on Monday!</p>
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