Comments on: America against the GFW

By: Uln

Uln — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 07:31:17 +0000

1- Sorry if I misunderstood your position. My previous comment was addressed to the “fenqing” who follow the 1-2-3 reasoning. I edit my comment and change “you” for “them”.

2- Sincerely I wish democracy in the World was the goal of Western powers. Sadly, it is not. The real goal is to maintain their power and ensure favourable conditions to their economy. Very similar to China’s own goals in foreign policy – except that the West tends to be more agressive.

Just think of it: if democracy really was a priority then why protect all those African dictators, the Saudi Arabian family-state, etc. ?

I wish you were right in this point, but I find it hard to believe. Most of the times the West uses the word “democracy” only as a means to put pressure on China, not as a real fundamental objective.

By: 徐

Thu, 03 Sep 2009 03:36:23 +0000

It seems you don’t quite understand what I’m saying, even put words in my mouth. (I wish it’s not because of my terrible English skill.) I didn’t say “I don’t want democracy anymore”. I’m saying Chinese people have a different understanding of what is good(democracy,human rights,freedom) and a different approach to handle these issues. For example, the west regards the one-child policy as an inhuman one, but Chinese think it’s crucial to the survial of the country You’re not supposed to assume that I would be so narrow-minded as to object the idea of rule of law, transparency, etc just because I’m upset “because of the opinion of some Western people about Tibet”. I’m above that, so are the Chinese people, even including the “fengqing”. You are so emotional that you just react to my comment the way I’m very familiar with. I feel a little bit disappointed. Why would you always think that whoever disagree with you must belong to the group of “a bunch of rich kids”? So all the people I mentioned in my previous comment (those sholars, businessmen,those who took to the streets in US to protest against CNN) are just “a bunch of rich kids”?

“Democracy in the World is NOT the West’s goal”
This the most unbelievable claim I’ve ever heard, I would be very appreciative if you can prove it.

By: Uln

Uln — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:12:24 +0000

I have heard before this kind of reasoning, and I know very well that some (not all!) of the Chinese educated youth think this way. In my opinion it doesn’t make much sense.

THEY are essentially saying that:

1- “Democracy in China” is the West’s goal, and
2- therefore, since THEY are upset because of the opinion of some Western people about Tibet, etc.
3- then THEY don’t want democracy anymore!

But this whole line of argument, apart from being ridiculously emotional for such a serious issue, is also flawed. Because:

1- Democracy in the World is NOT the West’s goal. It is the goal of some idealists, but look seriously at the USA’s actions and you will see that it is far from being the true objective of its Foreign policy. A stable and rich China with cosy leaders is more like it.

2- The free media will criticize China about many things, no matter if you are a democracy or not. So what, it happens to all countries once in a while, learn to live with it. By opening up and showing the truth you control much better the World opinion than by closing all doors (see Western media reactions to Urumqi’09 vs Tibet’08).

3- When you think of democracy, forget about the US for a second and think whether it (or which parts of it) would be beneficial for the Chinese people. Some parts are obviously beneficial, like the Rule of Law, transparence and reduction of censorship.

Finally, the discussion about democracy in China is very serious and can affect the lives of millions of laobaixing; to base it on the juvenile nationalistic tantrums of a bunch of rich kids is selfish and immature, to say the least.

By: 徐

Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:15:43 +0000

I also don’t think US’ attempt to bring down the GFW is very necessary in terms of transforming China into democracy. Although farmers and workers make up the big part of the population, it’s always the intellectual that determine which direction the country should go in. A lot of Chinese officials, scholars and businesemen are well exposed to the information that is censored in China, still,
it seems that most of them are not very enthusiastic with western-style democracy. Undeniably, all the overseas Chinese could have learned enough about FLG, but, by reading the comments they made on some foreign forums, I tend to think a lot of them have little sympathy for FLG guys. The same can also be said about the “free tibet” movement.

So it is like that the more a Chinese(I mean the well-educated ones) learn about it, the more “nationalistic” he or she becomes.　This　certainly runs counter to the west’s goal.

The fundamental reason , in my opinion,is not a lack of uncensored information, but a different understanding and approach. Chinese people and the western people don’t share same values, I mean we don’t agree completely with each other in terms of what is good and how to achieve it. But, I think we do share something in common: we are all human beings.