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	<title>Comments on: The Reading Method</title>
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	<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473</link>
	<description>Of China changing the World</description>
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		<title>By: Lingomi&#8217;s Reading List for 4/30/2010 &#8211; 5/9/2010 &#171; Lingomi Blog</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473/comment-page-1#comment-23595</link>
		<dc:creator>Lingomi&#8217;s Reading List for 4/30/2010 &#8211; 5/9/2010 &#171; Lingomi Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 14:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473#comment-23595</guid>
		<description>[...] Language Thursdays has a good post on reading Chinese. I agree that reading is a quick way to master Chinese. ( and I always noticed the speed [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Language Thursdays has a good post on reading Chinese. I agree that reading is a quick way to master Chinese. ( and I always noticed the speed [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Language Thursdays: Parsing Chinese 1.0 &#124; CHINAYOUREN</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473/comment-page-1#comment-23427</link>
		<dc:creator>Language Thursdays: Parsing Chinese 1.0 &#124; CHINAYOUREN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 17:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473#comment-23427</guid>
		<description>[...] already spoke last year about the problem of Reading Chinese functionally. It is very important for advanced students of Chinese, because progress beyond a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] already spoke last year about the problem of Reading Chinese functionally. It is very important for advanced students of Chinese, because progress beyond a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: kailing</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473/comment-page-1#comment-15467</link>
		<dc:creator>kailing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473#comment-15467</guid>
		<description>Well I read somewhere that when we read the brain has to process the language visual information directing it to the recognition-meaning areas of the brain. When reading Chinese, we have to change those processes, as what we are recognizing is not a small fixed set of characters organized in a semantic unit, but  picture-meaning units that have meaning in themselves and also (sometimes even different/not related one) in relation to other. Apart from the character recognition brain process, the input system is also different, so we need to adjust; I think for a foreigner it will be like if reading english &quot;partnership&quot; you will have the word understood as part/ner/ship so you have to process each and the whole to reach the final meaning. Probably alphabetic scripture language speakers and &quot;pictorial&quot; based ones process the information differently in the brain, that in turn, has become used and its proficient in that specific process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I read somewhere that when we read the brain has to process the language visual information directing it to the recognition-meaning areas of the brain. When reading Chinese, we have to change those processes, as what we are recognizing is not a small fixed set of characters organized in a semantic unit, but  picture-meaning units that have meaning in themselves and also (sometimes even different/not related one) in relation to other. Apart from the character recognition brain process, the input system is also different, so we need to adjust; I think for a foreigner it will be like if reading english &#8220;partnership&#8221; you will have the word understood as part/ner/ship so you have to process each and the whole to reach the final meaning. Probably alphabetic scripture language speakers and &#8220;pictorial&#8221; based ones process the information differently in the brain, that in turn, has become used and its proficient in that specific process.</p>
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		<title>By: Stab in my back: TV Serials and Communist Ethics &#124; CHINAYOUREN</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473/comment-page-1#comment-15382</link>
		<dc:creator>Stab in my back: TV Serials and Communist Ethics &#124; CHINAYOUREN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473#comment-15382</guid>
		<description>[...] have realized lately that, due to a certain unbalance in my training methods, my Chinese reading skills might be running ahead of my speech, and I have been forced to take [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have realized lately that, due to a certain unbalance in my training methods, my Chinese reading skills might be running ahead of my speech, and I have been forced to take [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Wukailong</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473/comment-page-1#comment-15233</link>
		<dc:creator>Wukailong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 04:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473#comment-15233</guid>
		<description>Yinbin: I think it has to do with the differences between the source and target languages. If your &quot;source&quot; language (that is, the one you grew up with) is sufficiently different from the &quot;target&quot; language (the one you&#039;re learning), you will have more issues studying and using it. It&#039;s not just from Chinese/Japanese/Korean to English, it&#039;s also the other way around. I guess Mandarin will be studied by much more people in the future, and then Westerners will have more trouble than their Asian counterparts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yinbin: I think it has to do with the differences between the source and target languages. If your &#8220;source&#8221; language (that is, the one you grew up with) is sufficiently different from the &#8220;target&#8221; language (the one you&#8217;re learning), you will have more issues studying and using it. It&#8217;s not just from Chinese/Japanese/Korean to English, it&#8217;s also the other way around. I guess Mandarin will be studied by much more people in the future, and then Westerners will have more trouble than their Asian counterparts.</p>
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		<title>By: jason</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473/comment-page-1#comment-15088</link>
		<dc:creator>jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473#comment-15088</guid>
		<description>Chinese is freakin&#039; hard. I&#039;m chinese and I use english. ROFL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chinese is freakin&#8217; hard. I&#8217;m chinese and I use english. ROFL</p>
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		<title>By: yinbin</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473/comment-page-1#comment-14681</link>
		<dc:creator>yinbin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473#comment-14681</guid>
		<description>This is not directly related to your post on reading skills. But an observation I have made (and a disturbing one to me) is that your native language may dictate/constrain how far you can go when learning another language. 

Specifically, if your first language is: French, Spanish, Italian, Finnish, Polish, Russian, Dutch (etc...) you will eventually attain a high proficiency in English after prolonged exposure and study. If your first language is Chinese, Korean, or Japanese, you will only rarely attain a high proficiency in English, even after prolonged exposure and study. 

My observation is based on the professors in the US. They are the ones who did doctoral degrees in English speaking countries, have published tons of articles/books in English and have been teaching and living in the US for many many years. Yet, they still have problems in English - they lack the ability to use English at ease in speaking situations and even their written communication seems weak sometimes. And in terms of English proficiency, they are dwarfed by their counterparts whose first languages are French, Spanish...
In colloquims, Chinese/Japanese/Korean professors seldom participate in spontaneous asking/answering. And I suspect it is because of linguistic deficiency. 

I have no explanation for this. But this is very depressing to me. I have been discussing this with other people and they agree with my observation. 

I have been told that many European countries extensively import English TV programs and that they put subtitles (instead of dubbing). This has been offered as an explanation for why Dutch, Swedish, etc.. people have a scary command of English. But this cannot be the only explanation as I have also been told that in France they do dub foreign language programs... 

The explanation may lie in the brain - in the form of neural commitment or whatever. But I don&#039;t know. And whatever it is I suspect may explain the reading speed differences you&#039;ve observed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is not directly related to your post on reading skills. But an observation I have made (and a disturbing one to me) is that your native language may dictate/constrain how far you can go when learning another language. </p>
<p>Specifically, if your first language is: French, Spanish, Italian, Finnish, Polish, Russian, Dutch (etc&#8230;) you will eventually attain a high proficiency in English after prolonged exposure and study. If your first language is Chinese, Korean, or Japanese, you will only rarely attain a high proficiency in English, even after prolonged exposure and study. </p>
<p>My observation is based on the professors in the US. They are the ones who did doctoral degrees in English speaking countries, have published tons of articles/books in English and have been teaching and living in the US for many many years. Yet, they still have problems in English &#8211; they lack the ability to use English at ease in speaking situations and even their written communication seems weak sometimes. And in terms of English proficiency, they are dwarfed by their counterparts whose first languages are French, Spanish&#8230;<br />
In colloquims, Chinese/Japanese/Korean professors seldom participate in spontaneous asking/answering. And I suspect it is because of linguistic deficiency. </p>
<p>I have no explanation for this. But this is very depressing to me. I have been discussing this with other people and they agree with my observation. </p>
<p>I have been told that many European countries extensively import English TV programs and that they put subtitles (instead of dubbing). This has been offered as an explanation for why Dutch, Swedish, etc.. people have a scary command of English. But this cannot be the only explanation as I have also been told that in France they do dub foreign language programs&#8230; </p>
<p>The explanation may lie in the brain &#8211; in the form of neural commitment or whatever. But I don&#8217;t know. And whatever it is I suspect may explain the reading speed differences you&#8217;ve observed.</p>
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		<title>By: Uln</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473/comment-page-1#comment-14433</link>
		<dc:creator>Uln</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473#comment-14433</guid>
		<description>PS. One more thing to note: it turned out that the 2 Chinese persons I tested read faster in Chinese than I do myself in English. I am not particularly a slow reader, so either 
1- Chinese actually read faster than us or 2- Those girls were trying to impress me.

Anyway, the size of my experiments is too small to prove anything conclusively, I wonder if there are studies available somewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS. One more thing to note: it turned out that the 2 Chinese persons I tested read faster in Chinese than I do myself in English. I am not particularly a slow reader, so either<br />
1- Chinese actually read faster than us or 2- Those girls were trying to impress me.</p>
<p>Anyway, the size of my experiments is too small to prove anything conclusively, I wonder if there are studies available somewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Uln</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473/comment-page-1#comment-14432</link>
		<dc:creator>Uln</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473#comment-14432</guid>
		<description>Sorry late answer, I have had a couple of things this week. 

Meimei, you are right that usually more information fits into one page with characters than with latin letters, although this depends on the choice of formatting, Chinese books and websites tend to have much less empty spaces and less space between the lines, they look very cluttered (at least to my Western eye).

In any case, to fairly measure which of the 2 writing systems fits more info into a given space, you would need to asign some font and spacing that provided the same level of &quot;confort&quot; to the reader, which is a difficult thing to measure. 

Back to the reading speed: I have measured it using books that I have in both Chiense and English editions. My test book was Obama&#039;s &quot;audacity&quot;, and I selected a passage that looked like it was a very accurate translation (but there again, this is debatable). 

The question is: can this speed be improved with practice, and if yes, with how much practice. To the first question I am pretty sure the answe is yes, because I see some improvement im myself in the past few months. To the 2nd question I have no idea, since I do not know any foreigner who reads Chinese as fast as the Chinese.

Wukailong is clearly one good step ahead of me in reading abilities, but I hope that after a few more months reading books I will be able to catch up :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry late answer, I have had a couple of things this week. </p>
<p>Meimei, you are right that usually more information fits into one page with characters than with latin letters, although this depends on the choice of formatting, Chinese books and websites tend to have much less empty spaces and less space between the lines, they look very cluttered (at least to my Western eye).</p>
<p>In any case, to fairly measure which of the 2 writing systems fits more info into a given space, you would need to asign some font and spacing that provided the same level of &#8220;confort&#8221; to the reader, which is a difficult thing to measure. </p>
<p>Back to the reading speed: I have measured it using books that I have in both Chiense and English editions. My test book was Obama&#8217;s &#8220;audacity&#8221;, and I selected a passage that looked like it was a very accurate translation (but there again, this is debatable). </p>
<p>The question is: can this speed be improved with practice, and if yes, with how much practice. To the first question I am pretty sure the answe is yes, because I see some improvement im myself in the past few months. To the 2nd question I have no idea, since I do not know any foreigner who reads Chinese as fast as the Chinese.</p>
<p>Wukailong is clearly one good step ahead of me in reading abilities, but I hope that after a few more months reading books I will be able to catch up <img src='http://chinayouren-free.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Wukailong</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473/comment-page-1#comment-14415</link>
		<dc:creator>Wukailong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 02:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473#comment-14415</guid>
		<description>My wife speaks perfect English and reads a lot, but it takes her much longer to read letters than characters. I think I can read a Chinese text at half the speed that I read an English text, but it&#039;s still slower. Maybe this will change with more practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife speaks perfect English and reads a lot, but it takes her much longer to read letters than characters. I think I can read a Chinese text at half the speed that I read an English text, but it&#8217;s still slower. Maybe this will change with more practice.</p>
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		<title>By: Mei-Mei</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473/comment-page-1#comment-13322</link>
		<dc:creator>Mei-Mei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/10/15/2473#comment-13322</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m probably at the same level as you are and I totally agree with your thesis of Western brains processing things differently from Chinese brains. But one should also consider this: I don&#039;t know how you measure your speed, but I normally do so by counting the number of pages I manage to read in a certain amount of time. So when I was reading a French novel the other day, I was amazed at how fast I was progressing, when my French vocabulary is really not that much larger than my Chinese. What I forgot was that much more characters than words fit on a page. So when reading a page of characters, you actually read more content. Guess that slows down, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m probably at the same level as you are and I totally agree with your thesis of Western brains processing things differently from Chinese brains. But one should also consider this: I don&#8217;t know how you measure your speed, but I normally do so by counting the number of pages I manage to read in a certain amount of time. So when I was reading a French novel the other day, I was amazed at how fast I was progressing, when my French vocabulary is really not that much larger than my Chinese. What I forgot was that much more characters than words fit on a page. So when reading a page of characters, you actually read more content. Guess that slows down, too.</p>
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