<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Stab in my back: TV Serials and Communist Ethics</title>
	<atom:link href="http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490</link>
	<description>Of China changing the World</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 29 Jan 2012 14:19:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Julen Madariaga</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490/comment-page-1#comment-22874</link>
		<dc:creator>Julen Madariaga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Apr 2010 17:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490#comment-22874</guid>
		<description>谢谢！ 我试试下载吧。</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>谢谢！ 我试试下载吧。</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: 来串门的</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490/comment-page-1#comment-22839</link>
		<dc:creator>来串门的</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490#comment-22839</guid>
		<description>嗨！ 
CCTV的我们基本上都不看，那是拍给中年妇女看得。

如果对历史题材感兴趣我推荐你看老版的《四世同堂》虽然是个老片，但是里面演的倍儿棒！！！ 角色入木三分，从老百姓的生活反映整个社会大环境，角度也比较客观。是我最爱的一部电视作品。

电驴下载地址： http://www.verycd.com/topics/215433/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>嗨！<br />
CCTV的我们基本上都不看，那是拍给中年妇女看得。</p>
<p>如果对历史题材感兴趣我推荐你看老版的《四世同堂》虽然是个老片，但是里面演的倍儿棒！！！ 角色入木三分，从老百姓的生活反映整个社会大环境，角度也比较客观。是我最爱的一部电视作品。</p>
<p>电驴下载地址： <a href="http://www.verycd.com/topics/215433/" rel="nofollow">http://www.verycd.com/topics/215433/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sex and Conservatives in China &#124; CHINAYOUREN</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490/comment-page-1#comment-21318</link>
		<dc:creator>Sex and Conservatives in China &#124; CHINAYOUREN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 07:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490#comment-21318</guid>
		<description>[...] interesting angle to the discussion, linking up to the question I asked last year in the post about TV serials and communist ethics: why are the commies so [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] interesting angle to the discussion, linking up to the question I asked last year in the post about TV serials and communist ethics: why are the commies so [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Uln</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490/comment-page-1#comment-16785</link>
		<dc:creator>Uln</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490#comment-16785</guid>
		<description>I will try that once I have recovered of the brain shock after watching 冷箭. I am completely sure that they are much better. It couldnt be otherwise..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will try that once I have recovered of the brain shock after watching 冷箭. I am completely sure that they are much better. It couldnt be otherwise..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: FOARP</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490/comment-page-1#comment-16780</link>
		<dc:creator>FOARP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490#comment-16780</guid>
		<description>The older ones were so much better - check out 地雷战争 for a 90 minute romp of pure guerilla-on-Japanese-invader action, the People&#039;s militia song sung whilst making the land-mines is a classic. A CCTV serial from a few years back was also pretty bizarre - called 历史的天空 - a term generally understood to refer to the Cultural Revolution, it follows a guerilla who becomes an officer in the PLA and then experiences the cultural revolution in an ever-so-toned-down fashion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The older ones were so much better &#8211; check out 地雷战争 for a 90 minute romp of pure guerilla-on-Japanese-invader action, the People&#8217;s militia song sung whilst making the land-mines is a classic. A CCTV serial from a few years back was also pretty bizarre &#8211; called 历史的天空 &#8211; a term generally understood to refer to the Cultural Revolution, it follows a guerilla who becomes an officer in the PLA and then experiences the cultural revolution in an ever-so-toned-down fashion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chinese is the Most Difficult Language &#124; CHINAYOUREN</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490/comment-page-1#comment-15933</link>
		<dc:creator>Chinese is the Most Difficult Language &#124; CHINAYOUREN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490#comment-15933</guid>
		<description>[...] and it is simply not a rational choice. So if you decide to go there, just make sure you have irrational [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and it is simply not a rational choice. So if you decide to go there, just make sure you have irrational [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Uln</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490/comment-page-1#comment-15627</link>
		<dc:creator>Uln</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490#comment-15627</guid>
		<description>I just edited a bit the comment above to make it more clear. I realize that, as author of the post, I bear at least half the responsibility for the misunderstandings, so here is a clarification:

All societies have an ethical system that defines what is right and what is wrong. This system is usually not written, and not fixed in time or space. For example: A couple living together before marriage is OK in my country today, but 30 years ago it was evil. Using fake receipts is morally acceptable in some countries, but in others it is a matter of shame.

In some societies it was mainly religious institutions like the Catholic Church that had the monopoly of setting and preserving these systems, in others it was tradition that handed down the principles from older to younger generations, as seen in the losely called Confucian system.

In the last decades, since both of those sources have lost credibility in large parts of the World, other elements have taken an increasing role in guiding the notions of good and bad. Mass communications, and TV serials in particular, are one of the best means to pass the message. 
In the West, for example, TV has taught us lessons as diverse as race equality and compulsive consummerism. It is difficult to determine who controls these messages, but the power of Big Business is certainly in it for some part.

In China, the situation is easier to understand, since the CCP completely controls TV productions. Therefore, all the lessons passed into these serials are either created by the CCP, or else inherited from pre-CCP times but adopted and supported by the communists.

Now, I admit the post is highly speculative in some points, and in particular about the concepts of forgiveness and revenge. But I want to clarify this: the idea that Chinese have a very tolerant nature, and in the same time are able of ignoring all compassion, is not an observation that I have done alone in my 3 years in China. It is an idea that has been written by many famous observers of Chinese society, including those in pre-communist times such as Carl Crow, Lin YuTang or Bertrand Russell. 

Clearly, the Chinese, like any other people, don&#039;t follow blindly the roles seen on TV serials, and yet it is impossible to ignore the influence that TV has on society. The ethics embodied in serials such as 冷箭 have not changed in their main lines since the liberation (probably long before), largely ignoring the Opening and Reform of Deng, and they are completely disconnected from the reality on the ground today. It is this disconnect that I tried to speculate about in the post, considering to what extent it has a role in many of the social problems seen today in China.

I am glad that people refutes some of my ideas, that is the whole point of this blog and I see it as an opportunity to learn more. But it would be so much more useful if somebody gave positive comments that add something, instead of plainly writing: &quot;You don&#039;t understand China&quot;. 

I reserve the right to erase those zero-value comments when I grow too tired of them, although up to now I have always kept a policy of accepting all non-insulting contributions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just edited a bit the comment above to make it more clear. I realize that, as author of the post, I bear at least half the responsibility for the misunderstandings, so here is a clarification:</p>
<p>All societies have an ethical system that defines what is right and what is wrong. This system is usually not written, and not fixed in time or space. For example: A couple living together before marriage is OK in my country today, but 30 years ago it was evil. Using fake receipts is morally acceptable in some countries, but in others it is a matter of shame.</p>
<p>In some societies it was mainly religious institutions like the Catholic Church that had the monopoly of setting and preserving these systems, in others it was tradition that handed down the principles from older to younger generations, as seen in the losely called Confucian system.</p>
<p>In the last decades, since both of those sources have lost credibility in large parts of the World, other elements have taken an increasing role in guiding the notions of good and bad. Mass communications, and TV serials in particular, are one of the best means to pass the message.<br />
In the West, for example, TV has taught us lessons as diverse as race equality and compulsive consummerism. It is difficult to determine who controls these messages, but the power of Big Business is certainly in it for some part.</p>
<p>In China, the situation is easier to understand, since the CCP completely controls TV productions. Therefore, all the lessons passed into these serials are either created by the CCP, or else inherited from pre-CCP times but adopted and supported by the communists.</p>
<p>Now, I admit the post is highly speculative in some points, and in particular about the concepts of forgiveness and revenge. But I want to clarify this: the idea that Chinese have a very tolerant nature, and in the same time are able of ignoring all compassion, is not an observation that I have done alone in my 3 years in China. It is an idea that has been written by many famous observers of Chinese society, including those in pre-communist times such as Carl Crow, Lin YuTang or Bertrand Russell. </p>
<p>Clearly, the Chinese, like any other people, don&#8217;t follow blindly the roles seen on TV serials, and yet it is impossible to ignore the influence that TV has on society. The ethics embodied in serials such as 冷箭 have not changed in their main lines since the liberation (probably long before), largely ignoring the Opening and Reform of Deng, and they are completely disconnected from the reality on the ground today. It is this disconnect that I tried to speculate about in the post, considering to what extent it has a role in many of the social problems seen today in China.</p>
<p>I am glad that people refutes some of my ideas, that is the whole point of this blog and I see it as an opportunity to learn more. But it would be so much more useful if somebody gave positive comments that add something, instead of plainly writing: &#8220;You don&#8217;t understand China&#8221;. </p>
<p>I reserve the right to erase those zero-value comments when I grow too tired of them, although up to now I have always kept a policy of accepting all non-insulting contributions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Uln</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490/comment-page-1#comment-15539</link>
		<dc:creator>Uln</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 03:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490#comment-15539</guid>
		<description>Oh dear, I hate it when things get hot over here and I am not home to defend the poor blog. I will try to do what I can from my phone.

It is interesting how a little vigorous criticism of something Chinese (even if it is just bad TV series) immediately triggers the emotional response of angry ABCs.

@IG - You are not logical, most of your points are not germane to the central idea in discussion, and the one that is, namely that about Chinese tolerance, you completely misunderstood in my post. I dont think Chinese follow these serials like sheep, I think it is the writers of these serials that follow Chinese society, as most fiction writers are based on the reality that surrounds them. And I do think that Chinese are more tolerant than Westerners, yes, almost every single observationn, today or in history confirms it. This has nothing to do with the communist party or with TV, but just with the general character of a people. 

@Xu -Why do you think I don&#039;t understand Chinese history?  How is this related to the post? Please be more specific. Or did you just, as I suspect, copy/paste your comment from somewhere else? 

@Jaime - Obviously I did translate it like that for fun, and obviously I understand the meaning of this expression that is by no means obscure in Chinese.  I am not sure I get your point really. The captain and the whole team represent a puritanism in terms of sex that far exceeds anything found today in the West, thats all. You have to see the guy say the phrase (in chapter 25 or 26 cant find it now) to realize that it is the promiscuity that really disgusts him, far more than the immediate danger of a subordinate sleeping with a capitalist spy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh dear, I hate it when things get hot over here and I am not home to defend the poor blog. I will try to do what I can from my phone.</p>
<p>It is interesting how a little vigorous criticism of something Chinese (even if it is just bad TV series) immediately triggers the emotional response of angry ABCs.</p>
<p>@IG &#8211; You are not logical, most of your points are not germane to the central idea in discussion, and the one that is, namely that about Chinese tolerance, you completely misunderstood in my post. I dont think Chinese follow these serials like sheep, I think it is the writers of these serials that follow Chinese society, as most fiction writers are based on the reality that surrounds them. And I do think that Chinese are more tolerant than Westerners, yes, almost every single observationn, today or in history confirms it. This has nothing to do with the communist party or with TV, but just with the general character of a people. </p>
<p>@Xu -Why do you think I don&#8217;t understand Chinese history?  How is this related to the post? Please be more specific. Or did you just, as I suspect, copy/paste your comment from somewhere else? </p>
<p>@Jaime &#8211; Obviously I did translate it like that for fun, and obviously I understand the meaning of this expression that is by no means obscure in Chinese.  I am not sure I get your point really. The captain and the whole team represent a puritanism in terms of sex that far exceeds anything found today in the West, thats all. You have to see the guy say the phrase (in chapter 25 or 26 cant find it now) to realize that it is the promiscuity that really disgusts him, far more than the immediate danger of a subordinate sleeping with a capitalist spy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: stuart</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490/comment-page-1#comment-15523</link>
		<dc:creator>stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490#comment-15523</guid>
		<description>@ Xu Jiahong

Do be quiet, old sport.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Xu Jiahong</p>
<p>Do be quiet, old sport.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kailing</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490/comment-page-1#comment-15466</link>
		<dc:creator>kailing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490#comment-15466</guid>
		<description>I do not know if he is looking for discussion, but I agree with many things in the post. So let&#039;s hope for your illumination on the matters that you so much understand, and the rest seem to fail to... then we can have some discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not know if he is looking for discussion, but I agree with many things in the post. So let&#8217;s hope for your illumination on the matters that you so much understand, and the rest seem to fail to&#8230; then we can have some discussion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jaime</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490/comment-page-1#comment-15434</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490#comment-15434</guid>
		<description>乱搞男女关系!

Yes, I suppose for humors sake you could translate this literally as &quot;disorderly do man woman relations&quot;, but from what you described, isn&#039;t this a period piece intended for a very broad audience? I would think that a less rigid translation might be in order, though that might not make for such good mocking. I think that in time you will find that 乱 means a lot more than just &quot;disorderly&quot;, especially in this context... that said, I seriously doubt tv censors wants to see the other characters for this fine, fine action appear on the screen, no?

Perhaps a quibble over a small detail, but it&#039;s important to know such things when trying to master Chinese.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>乱搞男女关系!</p>
<p>Yes, I suppose for humors sake you could translate this literally as &#8220;disorderly do man woman relations&#8221;, but from what you described, isn&#8217;t this a period piece intended for a very broad audience? I would think that a less rigid translation might be in order, though that might not make for such good mocking. I think that in time you will find that 乱 means a lot more than just &#8220;disorderly&#8221;, especially in this context&#8230; that said, I seriously doubt tv censors wants to see the other characters for this fine, fine action appear on the screen, no?</p>
<p>Perhaps a quibble over a small detail, but it&#8217;s important to know such things when trying to master Chinese.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Xu Jiahong</title>
		<link>http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490/comment-page-1#comment-15431</link>
		<dc:creator>Xu Jiahong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinayouren-free.com/2009/11/13/2490#comment-15431</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re not going to get an interesting discussion going because your ignorance of Chinese history, the Chinese communist movement and the revolution seem to be only surpassed by your ignorance of the Chinese language. 
There&#039;s not a single shred of originality or insight in this tawdry rehash of tired anti-communism and Orientalism that merits even refutation. Your folly speaks - loudly - for itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re not going to get an interesting discussion going because your ignorance of Chinese history, the Chinese communist movement and the revolution seem to be only surpassed by your ignorance of the Chinese language.<br />
There&#8217;s not a single shred of originality or insight in this tawdry rehash of tired anti-communism and Orientalism that merits even refutation. Your folly speaks &#8211; loudly &#8211; for itself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
<!-- WP Super Cache is installed but broken. The path to wp-cache-phase1.php in wp-content/advanced-cache.php must be fixed! -->
