中国和互联网的世界地图
2009年12月4日，书面Julen Madariaga我昨晚摆弄一些统计数字，考虑到奇怪的想法，我们最近一直在讨论中国互联网的偏狭。 表达式本身是奇数，因为“互联网”和“偏狭”形成一个矛盾，但你很难看到这些东西，当你住在这里。 在社会主义市场经济体制的土地的正常程序。
无论我们的词组，但事实是，它每一次，无论是讲的语言 ， 媒体 ，或政治 ，一切似乎都在这个方向。 下面的图片是我尝试画一个互联网的世界地图来说明这个与外界隔绝，从网站上使用互联网世界统计数据。
这里是我的第一个想法：我得到了超过10万互联网用户，这使得总32，从中国到摩洛哥的所有国家的统计数据。 然后，我没有Excel图表中每个气泡的面积成正比，该国的互联网用户，关键的是，我充满矩阵代码气泡。 结果：矩阵的世界地图：
互联网矩阵的世界地图
在上面的地图中的一个有趣的事情是，亚洲已经是世界上最大的的互联网领域。 惊人的，但不是真的，毕竟，迄今为止世界上人口最多的。 这是什么是什么：互联网与印度和中国的增长将是在未来几年亚洲联合。 未命中，将真的没有他们的全球净。 截至目前，净大多数人来自发达国家，从现在开始，大多数人将来自发展中国家。 我们的社会之间的密切联系，将有在线和离线的重要后果。 也就是说，假如我们真的管理连接。
但是，当我们说互联网，没有多大意义，看看政治界限。 有没有这样的事情，作为边境管制网上，真正团结或分割人民是文化。 一个，尤其是最重要的参数是语言：无论你的国籍，你如何定义用户作为你冲浪，这是为什么我的浏览习惯看看 Blogger的不是像在我的国家的人更多类似这样的原因是语言ESWN，我有完全不同的背景，但我们有共同冲浪语言。
所以，我抬头一看10的统计数据在互联网上最常用的语言，从英国到韩国。 这一次，我各色标志的泡沫，我把他们大致对他们的发言社区的重力中心。 结果是冲浪语言的地图：
冲浪语言的世界地图
尽管如此，地图不是很大。 许多发言者在庞大的英语泡沫实际上是印度人，西班牙应该是在美国和欧洲，和澳大利亚是完全出来的图片。 物理距离已经没有净的意思，甚至比政治上的边界。 它变得清晰，我的目的没有多大用处的地理，所以倒不如转储Gmaps和坚持的气泡。
我的新图看起来像这样，在所有主要的互联网社区的代表在云。 我们都是相互关联的，只有坚实的不同之处在于语言。 两个人共享一个爱好，喜欢足球，但他们没有去相同的网站，如果他们冲浪在不同的语言。 媒体和互联网上的资源大部分是没有翻译成其他语言，而是重新编写和重新诠释本土博客/记者，社区之间的边境控制功能。
改进互联网的世界地图：云
我们看到云的事情之一是，所有社区相互接触。 但我恐怕这不是一个非常精确的图片。 通常情况下俄罗斯没有翻译日本的内容，也没有葡萄牙语翻译阿拉伯语。 英语有今天在互联网上的一个至关重要的作用，因为在大多数情况下，通过英语，其余的语言沟通：大多数内容是英语和翻译的第一，从有到其他社区。 英语的泡沫，包括来自世界各地的的用户，是互联网的中心。
与云的另一个问题是，它显示所有同样互连的社区，这是不太现实的的。 谁讲欧洲语言的用户更容易阅读英文。 西班牙社会，例如，包括许多美国人上网作为自己的语言之多的英文网站。 其实，大部分的语言泡沫的像素与英文泡沫的重要组成部分，所以我们可以代表一个维恩图的地图：
第二次迭代：维恩图地图
我们看到新的地图是从以前的一个非常不同。 现在有一个西方语言与英语的内容很多，两个更多的语言，分享了一下，俄语和阿拉伯语，然后三种语言，形成了今天亚洲互联网的核心集群：中国，韩国和日本。 您可能已经注意到，我得出中国在其余的距离。
由于种种原因，我们将看到，中国人不使用Facebook或Twitter的，或YouTube或MySpace，或eBay。 他们不看Boing Boing或赫芬顿邮报 ，和他们在自己的QQ聊天室聊天。 他们很少得到我们所收到的病毒邮件，相反，他们喜欢别人之一。 他们所有的事情，我们已经和多一些，但他们建立了并联在其独立的互联网包裹。
鉴于上述的气泡的大小是由一个受人尊敬的收集定量数据源的位置，才决定由半知情的感觉。 任何读者可能会说，中国不应该迄今正确。 有香港，美籍华人，甚至大陆的中国人用英语做冲浪。 我将不得不承认，维恩图是有缺陷的的，因为它未能证明这一点。
但在这样一个像互联网世界瞬息万变，位置真的没什么意思。 今天举行的，明天可能会有所不同。 什么是真正有意义的是动态：哪个方向是中国，以及如何将在10年的互联网看？ 大家都同意，中国的互联网社区发展非常迅速，而且是很自然的的。 令人担心的部分是，它也可能会逐渐远离其余的。
第三次迭代：动态地图
由于西方国家的互联网普及率已经非常高，印度仍然相对滞后，在未来10年中国互联网将成为所有其余的几乎一样大。 如果继续发散，它可能成长为一个平行的网络，像月亮黑暗的一面，一个巨大的，自给自足的岛屿，政府可以减少在任何时刻，里面大多数人不察觉的差异。 这违背了WWW的整体思路。
无论问题的真实规模，它是明确的大多数观察家有一个断开连接中国与互联网的休息，而且将进一步除了有强大的力量。 幸运的是，也有工作，以平衡的力量，并在未来数年的结果将在很大程度上取决于这些因素如何发挥互相反对。 这里是我的新的地图现在看起来如何： 
互联网的力量
正如我们所看到在这篇博客之前，一些，使中国从世界的独立的主要因素有以下几种，以红色显示在图表：
- 语言 ，因为我们看到在这个岗位 ，我们证明了中国的语言是美丽的，在许多方面都是独特的，但它很难为中国人与外国人连接。
- 文化在广泛意义上的字，这意味着社区有不同的看法和价值观，他们无法理解对方。 这包括与媒体的问题。
- 政治 ，多种形式，包括保姆，中国的防火长城（GFW），直接抓人，中共蓄意行动，我们看到这里。
在绿色的主要因素，在向相反的方向去。 在这里，他们进行了详细的，乐观飘柔：
- 越来越多的桥梁博客和其他互联网使用，连接两个社区的工作。 这些措施包括不仅是英语Chinablogs，但主要是中国人，中国互联网翻译国外媒体和其他内容。 从这个不起眼的博客，我也没有对我的桂枝茯苓丸位。
- 后90年代和80年代一代已经称霸中国互联网。 他们对艺术的个人品味，音乐或电影可能会更加国际化，并推动他们与世界连接。 这一点是辩论虽然对象，和一些西方人是非常怀疑的80后。
- 商业是链接中国走向世界的最重要因素之一。 自欧盟的建设，这不是什么秘密，电子商务可以实现世界和平的最雄心勃勃的目标，所以不管你采取是那些商业头脑的中国，他们可能是主力军，仍是保持中国岛连接和控股万维网一起。
你觉得呢 ？ 你有什么想法？
你觉得我夸张？ 或者是问题，甚至比这更糟糕？ 我错过了在互联网地图的任何因素？ 上网的朋友：你是彩色的气泡内的像素，你知道这个世界上所有，因为它是你的家：评论和帮助我提高我的地图！
Alex said:
WP Autoblogs said:
Answer James said:
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上午
这很有趣，你提到了联合国的作用，桥梁博客，特别是因为这一原则在两个方向运行。 中国互联网的宝石之一，是译言，在这里用户可以翻译成中文的英文文章。
我把译言，当然，因为它是最近关闭 。 在译言的人提供了以下的解释性发言：
当你疏远你提到的三种类型，在语言学和文化领域有非常强大的力量在工作中，这些都使得这些因素随着时间的推移越来越少有关。 我们学习彼此的语言，有一个显著太平洋两岸的真正的兴趣，加强文化交流。 即使像反CNN.com政治导向的网站仍然是一个文化的交流，因为该网站的机制，使得访问中国读者的英文内容。 在这三个，其中只有一个，即，“政治”之一，涉及组织机构（中共）的故意，并积极试图削弱和关闭的英文和中文的语言的互联网社区之间的文化交流警戒线。
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下午
您好，感谢信息。 这是一个巧合，我没有读过“单位”的文章，我才张贴了这个，和我不知道译言被关闭。 这样的网站发挥了重要作用的因特网连接。 我希望这只是一个临时块，但谁知道，你不能指望的桂枝茯苓丸是合理的。
一般，我觉得像译言的努力应该被复制或从双方开始新的思路。 有互联网专家大多数是小工具痴迷的业务分析师，我觉得我们正在失去什么是真正重要的焦点。
真正的交易是不是Twitter或Facebook，或那些东西，技术crunchers狂欢。 那些东西都是唯一的工具，真正的交易是连接世界各地的人们在互联网上（或连接失败）。 这些相互作用是要改变世界，它的发生已经和99％的高科技博客找到更多有趣的一个放屁的iPod应用程序发言！！
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下午
我喜欢您的文章很多，你正在试图做的是一些真正的高端概念的东西，所以也许我失去了一些东西，但我不完全同意您的文章。 首先，部分“中国不拥有Facebook或Twitter或YouTube或MySpace的，或eBay。 他们不看Boing Boing或赫芬顿邮报，和他们在自己的QQ聊天室聊天。“中国人用MSN和Skype，而不是QQ吨和你说话，在大量关于这些网站，而他们可能无法使用，美国和日本通常不连接上Facebook或Twitter或者（和有女士默多克的MySpace）。
我也看到凯撒从你的完全不同的想法。 他在谈论除以人网站上的美国和中国的世界之间的直接连接，而你说，由于语言和桂枝茯苓丸（对不起，简单化），是非常有限的连接。 虽然事情LKE桂枝茯苓丸一定阻碍的能力，为中国在与那些在中国以外的触摸，但仍有大量机会的提出和在几乎每一个国家，其中许多是由它存在的庞大的海外华人社会的帮助下连接在世界上。
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ULN回复：
2009年12月5日下午02:47
第一点：MSN是非常多，我知道，和Skype以及。 但这些都是时代最重要的唯一手段，与你的朋友说话或打电话给你表弟是在伦敦的学生。 但他们很少连接和你不知道的人交换意见的地方。 QQ，FACEBOOK，YouTube等文化来往多的地方。 我看到这个例子很多关于西班牙，那里的人共享视频和东西来自美国，只有10 yars前，没有人知道。 Facebook是一样的，现在我有外国朋友的负荷，我要为他们写英语，它没有使用像。 当然，像你这样说，大多数美国人依然没有日本朋友在Facebook / Twitter的，等气泡仍未完全集成的，但重要的是趋势：世界日益密切，中国是不是它的一部分（？ ）
第二点：我同意，我从来没有说过我的想法是为Kaiser的相同。 但他们不相抵触，他们是同一问题的两个方面。 他主要谈到误解，我发言的脱节。 这是部分原因是断开，发生误解。 当人们netfriends，Facebook上的朋友，Twitter的追随者来自不同的国家，他们往往更倾向于该国的温和，并尝试从对方的角度来看事情。
例如，当一个美国/中国/等政治家说一些愚蠢的，我不走，后说如何FKD了国家的激进文章，因为我有许多美国/中国/等。 读者，我必须要三思而后行，如果我点击发布按钮之前公平。 反CNN的人们大都不会有外国朋友，他们采取了冲突的一面。 友谊（即使它只是一种光友谊的Facebook）中庸和理解。
同样，我讲的趋势，这是走向融合的社区，或社区的分歧。 2最后的地图是最重要的，真的。
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下午
有趣的职位。 我觉得我那些重叠的地图和我的语言也符合我的复杂身份：/
我（多代）新加坡华人最喜欢的新加坡人，我的主要工作语言是英语，虽然我和我的家人在家讲普通话和中国方言。 我的中国（读/写，尤其是）是不是像我的英语水平由于效率低下的地方在我的青春在本地环境中的主导地位和英语的双语课程。
我最喜欢的新加坡人（人们通常假设我不是亚洲时，他们遇到我在线）英国互联网冲浪。 不过，我也经常看关于中国或日本的互联网的事情（我的第三个语言）。
我想在新加坡老一辈可能会在中国（我父亲的浏览器的网页是一些中国的新闻门户网站）更舒适，所以我想中国互联网的使用将按照以能力而有所不同。
我与中国大陆的在线聊天偶尔和我的印象是，年轻的是如饥似渴地学习英语的业务令人印象深刻的热情的原因，相信它会为他们带来一个更光明的future.I怕我不能真正了解它，因为我从小与英语作为一种实用工具。 因为我已经懂英语，有没有真正的语言，我真的迫切需要学习。 虽然我真的应该刷上我的中国（面子的原因是部分！）。
与中国大陆，我聊天在线（中国）和她评论说，它感到奇怪的是，我们在相同的语言沟通，虽然我们属于不同的countries.I不太有同样的感觉，因为我通常的类型，以便在英语有一个距离，即使我说我的父母普通话的意识。
大多数第一代和1.5代海外的中国人在中国出生和教育（甚至部分）往往是爱国和保持对什么是回家Chinese.Yes，他们交换温爷爷的照片标签。
在西方的第二代，drop.In东南亚，马来西亚籍华人已收到相当不少他们在中国的学校教育，可以在Chinese.They相当良好的语文能力往往也明白马来文和英文，因为他们需要。
重新印度人：众所周知，相当很多他们不懂英语，甚至如果他们的语言命令imperfect.I认为中国大陆可能赶上，最终though.Despite英语花了巨额，大多数日本人不精通英语他们最不需要也无妨。 我在日本，在日本。
PS我想学习第四语言。 这将是一个地图上的。 有人建议韩国，因为我了解中国和日本。 建议的人？
PSS的我开始对东亚文化的一个博客，因为我在这个世界的一部分，即使我什至不住在那里的兴趣。 我不知道这将是我的荒谬？
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ULN回复：
2009年12月5日，在7:12！
重语言：我自己的意见是坚持以中文或英文，他们既有大量的语言，在世界最大的原始词汇方面，和你在地图上看到，他们是目前最在互联网上使用。 即使你是在这些语言，你仍然可以继续提高书面语言的人，大多数以英语为母语不知道，即使现有的词汇的一半！
此外，所有的西方气泡群正在慢慢合并成英文（内容非常相似，或翻译成英语/）为主体的互联网书面语言，因此可能在未来将有2大独立的两极：英语及普通话。 这2种语言将是了解互联网的关键。
我正在学习3年，德国前我开始普通话，我什至在德国度过了几个月。 但后来我到中国，我意识到这是一个学习的寿命。 我后来决定退出学习更多的语言，并达到我的最高水平，在英文和中文。
这个博客是我的努力得到有英语，我觉得我写的更加流畅（我希望用较少的人造阿美族），较一年前当我开始在博客的一部分。
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下午
欢迎的Chinternet，这是自2006年以来，中国互联网。 它的特殊，它有一个特殊的的名字。 我们在中国的Myspace。
真正需要做的是看区域内的数据流在区域间的数据传输率。 例如，数据流的中国，中国内部的数据流。 这将提供一个更真实指标·比上述方法的一个共同的时间间隔与外界隔绝超过°。 如果数据可用。
但是，你需要让规模效应 - 因为中国的互联网将更加封闭，不如说是比利时的，因为中国是如此之大，几乎所有的中国人能想到的是国内，所以他们不太需要国际/区域连接。 我的意思是，即使没有语言或其他障碍会有一些连接的集群，在中国或美国。
这一切都必须有书面有人博士学位论文
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ULN回复：
2009年12月5日，在6:33！
你是完全正确的，这个问题是很重要的人应该做适当的研究。 唯一我在这里做的是设置了一个框架，并提出问题。 我不回答，因为我没有时间自己做任何认真的研究，我的基础，是我自己的经验，中国互联网和我亲密的朋友在上海。
另一方面，我不知道这些东西都是可衡量的，至少不会在把它的方式，的。 有可能是一种方法来估计多少数据和中国互联网，但你怎么分开的真正内容的噪音？ 你怎么知道是反CNN的流CNN写agaist，或者干脆在美国的中国生活在他们的家论坛参与的人有多少？ 这些东西肯定wouldnt计数为“连接”... ...我宁愿想象一些研究一种基于用户调查（已经存在，但几乎总是集中在市场营销上，而不是政治文化问题）。
重新MYSPACE：哎呀，感谢更正，我会编辑。 不过，我不认为它是如此之大在美国（至少我从来没有见过我的朋友/同事使用它）。
更新：刚检查，很快就谷歌和它看起来像MySpace在中国已经成长了很多麻烦，甚至规划重组业务。 部分原因似乎是审查。 见这个链接
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下午
相当准确的地图，但我想说，日本和韩国的网络是不是与英语。 当然不能在政治上为中国的独立，但大多数日本/韩国人不会说英语，所有在美国的内容不感兴趣。 我已在Facebook上超过日本，防火墙和所有的中国朋友。
我不知道，以及有关阿拉伯的内容。
兰花：呸，韩国不值得。 而韩语是易学在屁股疼痛读取整个页面：非间距均匀拼音脚本呢？ 全部的同音字？ 不聪明，因为他们认为。
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5
下午
诚然，当我在日本，让我吃惊最多的是英语水平低，甚至在东京，的事情之一。 这实在是不以这种方式从中国不同。 但另一方面似乎有更多的文化日本和西方之间的联系，日本流行文化在西方的吸引力，也没有桂枝茯苓丸与DL等问题或政治问题... ...
我的地图的一个薄弱点是，我没有真正的数据，以4球的位置：俄文，阿拉伯文，日本和韩国。 我的地图是在这方面的猜测。 然而，他们每个人我有充分理由认为有断开低于与中国，因为文化，政治和语言的差距较小，他们有没有桂枝茯苓丸... ...也因为中国的泡沫是更大，更快的增长比其中4人加在一起..
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5
下午
好东西。 我认为OU将进一步完善它。 坚持做下去。 我敢肯定，在今后一个时期，你的映射会参考点之一，世界变得越来越小，功率更集中在少数人手中的政治家。 搜索引擎会使用你的映射，制定不同的广告计划，以创造更多的收入。 我可以看到这样的映射关系的潜力。
只有一点分歧。 在今后一个时期，中国的泡沫将链接和整合与英文的泡沫。 多的中国人学习和使用英语，其他英语民族正在学习汉语。 这可能不是一朝一夕的事，也许下一代，但它正在迅速增长。
我的机会后，中央电视台9英语全国英语演讲比赛。 我是如此深刻的印象，我观看，并沿袭了整个系列。 中国将更多的与讲英语的世界速度比大多数人认为的综合。
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6
上午
我想指出，重要的旅游仍然创造了解的一种方式是如何。 强大的互联网的信息传输工具，它不这样做很好。
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6
上午
您好ULN -
总是喜欢读您的博客，现在你写的东西，我做的工作是相当接近，我喜欢直接启动相应的，也许你买的啤酒下一次你在北京已经或我在上海。 你有我的电子邮件，当你得到一个机会，请给我一张纸条。 我想向您发送的讲话，我给10月在美国fleshes出更充分的一些事情，CNReviews后您链接倒是全文。 在此期间，请跟上伟大的工作！
最佳，
凯撒
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6
下午
杰夫 - 好评，这正是这个职位的主要点什么，我想在这里讨论。 许多中国人学习Engish的，是的，如果你测量的交通与内地和世界的节点上，确保它们是红热与来来往往的数据。 但我担心的是超过定量定性：有接触肯定，但在他们的理解是多少？ 我们正在建立一个全球互联网社群的意识？ 还是这些接触的疏远，其余的中国社会有相反的效果？
@ FOARP - 是的，但互联网的点是整个世界很快就会有平等机会获得它，而洲际旅行将维持很长一段时间发达的社会特权。 无论净的局限性，它有更多潜在变化比周游世界。
凯瑟 - 当然。 谢谢，！
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FOARP回复：
2009年12月6日，10:23！
是啊，这是千真万确的。 我想说的，不过，是的兴趣，甚至懒得去访问国外网站是不是只是空穴来风。 如果我从来没有去过中国，我肯定不会理会冲浪中国的网站，就像时下我在访问非洲，南美，印度网站的利益，只有边际。 旅游创造的兴趣，这也给现实世界的压力表来衡量你所读的一个国家。
平均反CNNer已在西班牙，英国，或美国发生的事情没有兴趣，但在如何在这些国家的媒体报道关于中国的故事。 中国网民平均也缺乏兴趣，在这些国家，因为他们自己的生活无关的事务，因此只会成为他们知道他们民族主义的表兄弟链接件。 现在的事务已经下降到他们目前的反馈回路的频带宽度或更易于通过语言培训访问没有增长将减少这种误解。 “制胜”在互联网上的论点并没有改变这个 - 我说有人已花费数年时间参数现在，其中很多现在看来毫无意义。
The only thing which does to some extent provide people with realistic gauges against which to measure the rhetoric of the nationalists provided by the internet are movies, music which speak directly about circumstances in the wider world and whose appeal lies in their artistic virtue, and the internet does give greater access to this. I remember especially the shocked response of Chinese Radiohead fans when they discovered that Radiohead supported the free Tibet movement. This can do something to take the edge off demonisation.
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FOARP Reply:
December 6th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
A while back Andrew Sullivan carried a quote on his blog that put this problem quite well. It compared the creation of garbage information (“Uruguay is preparing a nuclear strike on Israel”) and its countering (“Uruguay is small South American nation which is not and has never shown any sign of developing nuclear weapons or threatening Israel”) to encryption and decryption. Put simply, it is always easier to encrypt information than to decrypt it from scratch, since encryption requires only one level of complexity (eg, “think of a ridiculous lie”) whilst to counter it you require two or more as must first engage with the garbage information before you can disprove it (eg, “think of why this ridiculous lie is false”). In some circumstances people already possess the necessary information, but in an area in which they do not or in which the information they have supports the garbage information (ie, is itself also garbage).
It is for this reason that, for example, most British people believe that the EU has sought to ban bendy bananas, because to disprove this you must first explain why this is impossible (ie, that the EU does not have competence to make regulations in this particular area and at the time in question any nation could veto an attempt to create a directive). The information disproving the original lie is in most circumstances more difficult to understand than the original garbage information. The internet has so far propagated lies far more quickly than it has propagated the keys to countering such lies. Therefore, placed in the right places (eg, people who don't know where Uruguay is) and backed up with some fancy graphics, the lie I made at the start would reach many and be believed by some.
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6
下午
Uln: I have known for some time about the massive amount of data in the Chinese internet but I don't work in a tech startup. I'm more concerned about whether polishing up my Chinese will be useful in my offline life here in sg. Frankly speaking, learning a new language is more fun than practicing an old one. I certainly admit that my Chinese is not up to standard. (^_^;) I just wonder if it would be more efficient just to hire a Chinese national if really good Chinese language skills are needed. There is certainly no shortage of people who are expert at Chinese where I am. The question is whether it would become an essential skill for all.小时候,
Oh, some young mainland Chinese learn Japanese or Korean. My impression is that they do it because of business or interest in the pop cultures.
I am too poor to travel at the moment so I am enjoying the internet resources. In the old days when people migrated, it was pretty hard to keep in touch with the “old country”. It's different nowadays…
I am curious about how much contact Taiwanese have with their mainland counterparts. It seems that Taiwanese have their own bbs and blog networks. Of course, there's the traditional vs simplified characters issue but it's still the same language. QQ is pretty much a mainland Chinese thing.
Re: Japanese and Koreans. Japanese have their own social networks like mixi and Koreans have Cyworld. I'm not sure what is hot now because I'm not following Japanese trends avidly nowadays but Japanese have their own social etiquette for online networking. It seems to me that the Japanese and Koreans are pretty much self-sufficient (Koreans have their own portals/search engines) in that they can get everything they want in their own language. Koreans are very wired and Japanese surf the net using their mobiles.
However a lot of foreigners are interested in Japanese culture (less so for Korean) so they often learn Japanese and translate content for other English speakers. For Japan, this translated content tends to be in the areas of technology/design, traditional culture/cooking or pop culture/fashion. Chinese bridge bloggers tend to concentrate on heavy-hitting topics like politics and social issuesヽ（´ー｀）┌ Korean wave mostly affects Asians (in East Asia and Southeast Asia) and Asian diasporas. Mostly young ones who are crazy about Korean dramas and music and they learn Korean to enjoy the stuff.
Actually, I could write a whole thesis on why Westerners like Japan and dislike China and why they find Japanese culture more fascinating (>_ Right now, China doesn't have a well-developed, attractively packaged pop culture ready to be exported to the masses yet that would draw attention.
Anyway, people dying for analysis of Super Girl and stuff like that can visit this blog.
http://cfensi.wordpress.com/
As a Singaporean, I can say that we are more tuned to Taiwanese pop than mainland stuff which receives little exposure here. I think my childhood was the Hong Kong entertainment golden age boom lol Anyway, I'm too old to be into all this stuff. （￣ー￣）
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6
下午
Hi Uln
One thing for sure, is that the internet, left on its own, will always connect, never alienate. Unless there is intervention either by western or eastern politicians.
The vital point is that the Chinese and English blocks are fast emerging. Initially integration may be solely quantitative. That does not matter, thats always the first stage that any development must go through. Gradually and naturally the quality will develop, whilst the quantity will grow even more.
I would dare venture to say that you may find in the near future, the Japanese and Korean blocks integrating into the Chinese block.
干杯
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6
下午
I was inspired by your analysis of the worldwide internet condition. I'ma post 80s native Chinese who happen to be able to surf the net in both CH and EN. I think you might consider adding to your bridge part between the two communites those getting-over-the-wall programs on the net, made conveniently for a lot of people including me to use them literally to know the real stuff outside the wall. As long as the GFW policy continues, it is the English language instead of Chinese that should be adopted as language bridge to lead to mutual communication, the reason simply being English users are free to use it to express themselves while the Chinese users not.
Another thing, I don't quite understand what you mean by saying “This point is object of debate though, and some Westerners are very skeptical of the post 80s”. First of all, the post 80s and 90s are hugely different in the values, thinking styles, and social positions they are holding, not to mention the difference between people born in 80-84 and those in 85-89, roughly. A lot of, if not most of, the post 80s are starting to work or already been working for several years, and they know with their personal experiences about the real society and the pains of living in it.
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Uln Reply:
December 6th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Interesting, I am not so familiar with the differences between the different generations of post 80s/90s. It would be useful if you have some good link where we can read about that a bit more in detail, even if it is in Chinese.
至于那句“... ...一些西方人非常怀疑80年代后”，只要按照这句话的链接，它应该导致你一个关于韩寒和他与“时代”杂志最近的一次采访，你们这一代人是指的职位一些美国学者用一个短语，您可能会发现感兴趣... 他们特别提到政府的“潜紧凑”如果我记得很清楚。 您可能要检查出。
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6
下午
非常有趣的分析。
我只是走在大街上，看到我的第一个广告（房地产开发）上用汉字域名（新规例获得通过以来）。 我非常与此围栏：据我所知，不是每个人都应该使用字母的，但它可能区域化更净一些地区。
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ULN回复：
2009年12月6日下午10:25
啊，我仍然havent看到任何字符的URL的网站！ 哇，我现在很好奇，我要找到一个在谷歌看到如何在导航栏中。
好点以及有关区域化。 我不知道中国的网址是那么大，但它肯定不会在正确的方向去。
你可以想象，如果google.cn的网址是谷歌中国？这将确保绝对没有外国人进入该网站（因为他们甚至不知道如何键入它！）
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6
下午
[主持题外话]
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ULN回复：
2009年12月6日下午10:34
约翰，这是完全题外话。 对不起不希望把你，但我想提醒大家请坚持的主题，我想有一个了解中国互联网的辩论，这些意见是很分心。
如果有人想讲不同的东西，请你只找到一个是有关这一主题的帖子或者写在我的边栏上的接触形式，我会回答。 谢谢！
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6
下午
ULN，检查出来了它的PIC ..
： http://www.flickr.com/photos/ybouc/4162740888/ （它仍然是“CN”，但是，中国是明年，我听到。吗？ ）
现在，这类域名本身是好的。 如果百度，要使用两个Baidu.CN和百度。中国，这不是一个问题。 事实上，前者可能会更方便，只是因为它需要较少的按键。
域名系统本身的问题是没有这么多，但他们将如何进行广告宣传。
如果每个人都开始出版只用汉字的域，然后是真的回到了“全球性”的净角的一个步骤。 如果你两个都做，那很好。
同样，我理解你想要本地化接口（我想这就是为什么日本和韩国使用“的事情[名称] [搜索引擎]搜索！”，而不是把他们的广告URL，但他们有时做到既。
不管怎么说，它可能是大滑坡，我希望它不是，因为这会影响中国，当然，但它也可能影响阿拉伯国家，以色列，日本，韩国，和许多更多。
让我们看看它是如何了，我想... ...
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ULN回复：
2009年12月6日下午10:54
我看到的。 在第二个想法，我不知道这将是如此重要。 因为我假设字符的网址上刊登广告的网站，都写在中国，无论如何，非中国扬声器所以wouldnt任何区别，如果URL是拼音，只想让他浪费一次点击。 我不认为任何公司将哑作为支付整个翻译网站英语，然后只在字符做广告..
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7
上午
ULN：是啊，这实在的真实。 it might cause some issues when your chinese skills are just on the fence, though..
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7
上午
Uln,
有趣的东西。 While I agree the GFW is contributing to and perhaps reinforcing the so-called “disconnect” between the Chinese and English bubble, I don't buy your speculation that the degree of disconnect between the English bubble and the Arabic, Russian, Korean and Japanese bubble(essentially all non-western language bubbles) is less than it is with the Chinese bubble. You said you have “strong reasons to think” so without providing specifics. You believe that their “cultural, political and language gap is smaller”, I wonder how. Politically the users of Russian and Arabic internet are equally detached from their western counterparts as the Chinese are, if not more. Culturally the Koreans and Japanese are equally detached from the west as the Chinese.
In my opinion it is a no-brainer that language and culture play much more vital roles in creating and reinforcing the disconnect between any two bubbles than anything else, including the GFW. The fact that we speak different languages and have different cultural roots and perspectives determines that there will always be some degrees of disconnect. It is nothing to be afraid of. Don't get me wrong, I do think people should communicate and exchange ideas with other people (especially people of other countries, cultures and backgrounds), I just don't think that we need to eradicate the disconnect and be all the same. That would be extremely boring and dangerous. In the case of China vs. the west or any country A vs. country B for that matter, the disconnect exists because (1) most people have too many mundane things to worry about and they are simply not interested in what's going on in the other country/part of the world; (2) language barrier (enough said); (3) even without language barrier cultural differences set people apart. There will always be a disconnect between an English-speaking American and an English-speaking Chinese. Likewise there will always be a disconnect between an English speaking Chinese and an English-speaking Korean. People see things differently, it is this simple.
Of course the Chinese don't read Boing Boing or the Huffington Post, just like most westerners don't read Sohu or Tianya. I don't see there is anything wrong with that, it is what makes this whole internet thing amazing. If we were all to read more or less the same stuff, it would be so dreadful.
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7
上午
Uln,
One more thing: Perhaps it is just me (excuse me if the following makes no sense to you at all), but is there a tiny dose of cultural chauvinism in this whole thing? Somehow I (again, perhaps it is just me) sensed that the disconnect becomes worrisome because western governments/strategists/analysts/scholars/intellectuals/commentators fear that the Chinese will be further drifting away from the current western-centric world order and creating their own world? That this disconnect is only going to cripple and paralyze the west's ability to influence China?
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wangba Reply:
December 7th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Ah, but that's only assuming that a “connection” implies some degree of influence. But if you look at the “connected” countries pictured above, I do not believe that Korean, Japanese, or Arabic internet is really influenced by English internet at all.
I think the picture is a bit misleading. The countries grouped together gives sort of a wrong impression. It would probably work better as a web-like diagram, where it would show how well connected each country's internet is to each other. I would imagine that more visitors from around the world visit the English speaking internet than the Chinese one, perhaps that's the point being presented here.
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Juchechosunmanse Reply:
December 7th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Sure, only because English is the international lingua franca, not Chinese.
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arek oner Reply:
January 10th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
Don't forget that it connection implies a possibility for mutual influence and understanding. It's a two way street. Just as weel as either the US or China could use it to extand their soft power.
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7
上午
Orchid,
Your observations on why the majority of westerners (we are not talking about those scholarly people like Uln here,
) prefer Japanese culture over the Chinese are spot on. In short, China's current image as a totalitarian, backward, third-world, not-so-creative and quite clumsy country simply doesn't look appealing to most people. Plus there is the fear factor: that China might one day become an equal vis-a-vis the west, an entity that is perceived as powerful enough to challenge the west. This thought of course doesn't bode well for most westerners. For the same reason they will always be wary of Russia, unless Russia becomes part of the west (which is possible). It is always more comforting and safer to be drawn by the very exotic Guyana. 
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arek oner Reply:
January 10th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
I wouldn't say thats exactly how the west perceives China. Even some liberal journalists have been making statement in the press that they recognize China's political and economical effeciency lately. Also China is already an equal vis-a-vis the west. The American military strategy is based on high technology which relies heavily on information. By destroying one of their own satelite in 2007 China as proven that it is able to shut down the whole communication system for the information so crucial to the United States millitary. Should we also mention the US$ 1000 billion worth of US bonds the middle knigdom aquired recently? Now, let's look at the progress of China's economy over the last 40 years. Hunger was endemic in the 60′s and now China can afford to “buy” america! Only a superior political, strategical and economical culture could acheive such results so fast. If its better, faster and stronger, of course the west will want to learn about it and the fear might just fuel that demand for knowledge, if fear there is. Just think about the buzz on Japanese management methods back in the 70′ and 80′, America was terrorise at the rise of Japan in the economic war they were wagging but they sure wanted to learn what made them so great. Universities and libraries were filled with books on the subject. Japan has just lost two decades, China will surely steel the show. No need for inferiority complex on any side of the bargain.
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Wukailong Reply:
January 11th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
有趣的。 I never thought about shooting down satellites, although I remember that particular piece of news. Looks like the US has an Achilles' heel right there.
On the other hand, inferring from China's success that it has a “a superior political, strategical and economical culture” really seems like a stretch to me. Good management and successful reforms? Definitely. But for me it looks like people get over-enthusiastic just because of China's sheer size. It's not unlike the previous “tiger economies” technically or economically, it's just much bigger.
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8
上午
Can you surf into my website?
I found your blog originally via ESWN and I find the posts interesting as well more than a few of the comments. I am returning to live and do business in Dalian with my Chinese wife this time! I look forward to reading your posts often!
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11
上午
Before I say anything I want to clear things up by saying that whatever I type below has NOTHING to do with politics.
I just want to add Taiwan to the map because of its influences in Mandarin Chinese movies, music and the still young democracy. Taiwan is not often mentioned in international media due to its small size and population. But it is a place where the Chinese speaking people can speak freely to the world.
Now on to the map. Strictly speaking, Taiwan is officially called republic of china, but it is not considered a country by most nations. That is clear. But it does have its own flag. So I think you can put Taiwan near Japan and Korea (a smaller circle though)and connected to China. And since it uses mainly Chinese, it will overlaps with China more than the others in the future.
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Kevin B Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Willie,
The English language flag uses the current UK flag, though England is only one (though by far the major) part of the UK on the one hand and the USA is the country with the largest number of native-English speakers.
I think Uln just had to decide on the flag of the sovereign nation now ruling the area whence came the language. So no English flag, since it's not sovereign (since 1707), and no American flag, since it's a daughter country, not the source of English.
Similarly, the Yellow River valley is controlled by the People's Republic of China. Also, the Republic of Korea has more people than the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, so its flag is shown. (Perhaps Korean culture came more from what's now controlled by the North, but who really knows?) Cf. Spanish flag instead of Mexican, Portuguese flag instead of Brazilian, Saudi flag instead of Egyptian, German flag instead of, well, never mind.
So, though the ROC (Taiwan) may need to be noted in the text, it's not home to one of the top-10 languages on the net.
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13
下午
I've really enjoyed the articles you do on how China, both linguistically and by internet, is becoming (or continuing to be) its own self-contained society.
With Facebook, twitter, youtube and so many other things blocked in China for the foreseeable future, I've been thinking of switching over to local equivalents (language not a problem – I'm an expat that has spent almost 2 decades in greater China), but have been having trouble figuring out which is which, or in the case of youku, how to find things on it. Could you possibly provide some pointers? I don't want to be left out of the Web 2.0 anymore.
谢谢
麦克风
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julia Reply:
May 24th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
@Mike C,
I 'd like that you said,I would like to chat with you on MSN
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16
上午
My two cents on the “main factors that separate China from the world”:
Linguistic is probably the biggest reason that separates China from the rest of the world in both ways. Actually this applies to any two countries that speak different languages. However, IMO Chinese is more exposed to western cultures than people in western countries to Chinese culture. I'm not saying there's no misunderstanding or prejudice of western countries in Chinese minds (in fact quite a lot) but giving the strong influence of western culture in China and the increasing number of Chinese who are studying English (mandatory in many elementary schools), I have to say Chinese on average knows their counterparts better than the reverse. This is especially true in the case of expats where most Chinese overseas citizens are students or business people who master the native language in a level of basic conversation while a lot English teachers and businessmen in China can barely speak Chinese. That's probably why you hardly hear Chinese expats grumbling on the host countries' domestic affairs (except for their media's view on China) while a lot expats in China made many complaints. On the Internet censorship, I believe censoring English websites did much less than blocking Chinese expats' websites in Chinese. How many Chinese read English articles on Chinese issues or international news? Instead most knowledge of foreign countries comes from Chinese news (official and expats' blogs/forums). Ironically, Chinese overseas as a group are, generally speaking, pro-government and have less “foregien-moon-is-rounder” illusion than people in China.
Anyway, things are improving. China has just opened its door to the world for 30 years and so much communication has already been done than probably the last 5000 years combined. I see more challenge than rivalry. There's a contest between China and the west, in a who-is-the-winner-to-know-other-better competition. The winner will learn lessons faster and have an upper hand in future.
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14
下午
Uln, I'm starting some research on asia's virtual worlds, rather similar to how you've started the discussion above. I'd like to piece together a picture of the parallel Chinese, Korean and Japanese worlds, and their companies/govt etc and if and when they will pinch off from the English internet. I was thinking that since China is already the largest English speaking nation in the world, when China reintegrates with the English Internet, it is not so much the govt talking but many angry Chinese who are fedup with being misrepresented in the western media. Is it ok I use your material with full attribution for my research? 谢谢！ CP
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Uln Reply:
January 14th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
@CP: Sure, no need to ask, I think the Creative Commons licence lets you do just that. Don't take the above pictures too literally regarding Japanese and Koreans though, my knowledge of those too countries is superficial, and this post was meant to make some points about China rather than about those.
I would be curious to see your results regarding those other Asian countries and whether they are as far from the English internet as China. If you publish it somewhere give us a link.
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